Saturday, November 9, 2013

The big dilemma with how we view pro-choicers

So I've mentioned this before, but a lot of pro-choicers honestly don't know scientific facts, or aren't aware of other choices, or have people lying to them about the whole thing. Perhaps this actually makes them seem better, as it may not be their fault, and maybe they aren't the big bad people that want to kill babies but rather are just confused people who are uninformed as their side and society have pulled the wool over their eyes. Then again, maybe it's worse as they should know better and stand up against those trying to convince them of it. On the other hand, in a certain way that's better than then saying "Yeah we know it's a human being, but we don't care, people should be allowed to kill them anyway", and yet recently I came to the conclusion that one of the worst things about the pro-choice side is the fact that they spew so many scientifically illiterate things, and at the very least, if we got rid of all the "it isn't alive" "it's just an appendage of the mother" "it isn't human" garbage and all pro-choicers were just "yeah we recognize that it's a living human being but we think that mothers should have the right to do away with them" then life would be so much better, because at least they wouldn't be spewing unscientific crap that makes us think they are really just trying to justify it all with their bigotry, or perhaps they were wronged, or this will only help to further brainwash that side into actually believing all of that, and maybe that would be a step in the right direction as that big brainwashing mechanism which is the reason for a lot of people being pro-choice would be taken away from them and it could lead to less people being pro-choice.

So I guess what I'm saying is that this seems like a bit of a predicament. I'm sure it's also an area for lots of different sides and viewpoints in the pro-life side. You also have the pro-choicers who know it's killing and admit it and say there's nothing wrong with it and maybe wouldn't mind doing it, or people that act like it's great, like closer to your pro-abortion people, who on the one hand seem horrible, but on the other hand at least are more consistent and honest than their counterparts who are "personally pro-life" and think that abortion is a horrible thing, but think that we can't tell women to not do it, even though we don't do that with anything else, such as murder in general or rape.

The abortion doctors who know it is a human being and baby and life and they are killing it are great because it will help people understand these things and we can say "see, even they know it", but then are horrible because they are ACTUALLY fine with killing. The person who blatantly describes abortion like it is infanticide is horrible for being ok with that, but necessary for showing people that it IS infanticide. The person who honestly believes they are supporting women's rights by being pro-choice and doesn't realize the humanity of the unborn, and normally wouldn't hurt a fly, is better for being that type of person, but bad because they are supporting the stereotypes and a culture that hurts our young, but then that is split up into who was the one who wronged them and actually made them think that, as well as why on earth didn't they have the sense to realize that that is obvious bull and they should think for themselves?

It's hard. My empathy censors are going in all sorts of directions and I just don't know how to feel. Sometimes I want to hug those who actually think it's "just a clump of cells" and dehumanize, as I know they were brainwashed into believing that, and other times I hate that they are like that, and probably have convinced other people that that is actually true, as they even said it and are telling people that, and that's how it keeps spreading.


  1. Thanks for the article.

    ". . . a lot of pro-choicers honestly don't know scientific facts. . . . and maybe they . . . are just confused people who are uninformed as their side and society have pulled the wool over their eyes."

    And maybe some people are uninformed not because anyone pulled the wool over their eyes, but just because they were born uninformed and nothing ever changed that.

    I actually think the biggest problem is that viewing the unborn as insignificant is natural -- natural until something causes that to change.

    I tried to develop this idea in a post called "Personhood" at --

  2. I commonly get the responses of "It's just a clump of cells", "It doesn't have a brain.", or "It doesn't feel pain.". I know that what they are saying is wrong, but I don't have the knowledge to show them why it is wrong.

    People still discriminate against people just for being female or being black. If they can't get past that kind of thinking, how can they understand other things?

    1. I usually pull out this list of science links talking about how it's a human being and whatnot, and this link for development (like how the heart beats at 3 weeks after conception and the brain is the first organ to appear at 2 and a half etc.)
      "Fertilization is the epic story of a single sperm facing incredible odds to unite with an egg, and form a new human life. It is the story of all of us." "The two sets of chromosomes join together, completing the process of fertilization. At this moment, a unique genetic code arises, instantly determining gender, hair color, eye color, and hundreds of other characteristics. This new single cell, the zygote, is the beginning of a new human being."
      "The two cells gradually and gracefully become one. This is the moment of conception, when an individual's unique set of DNA is created, a human signature that never existed before and will never be repeated."
      "Biologically speaking, fertilization (or conception) is the beginning of human development...Fertilization begins with the spermatozoon contacting the cells surrounding the oocyte and ends with the mixing of the 23 male and 23 female chromosomes. The result is a single-cell embryo called a zygote, meaning "yoked or joined together," and it is the first cell of the human body. The zygote, like the oocyte, is encased by its protective covering, the zona pellucida, and contains 46 unique chromosomes with the entire genetic blueprint of a new individual."

      even wikipedia acknowledges a zygote is a new organism
      "Fertilization occurs when the nuclei of a sperm and an egg fuse to form a diploid cell, known as zygote. The successful fusion of gametes forms a new organism."
      "Although life is a continuous process, fertilization... is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte."
      "Although human development is usually divided into prenatal (before birth) and postnatal (after birth) periods, development is a continuum that begins at fertilization (conception). Birth is a dramatic event during development, resulting in change in environment.
      Development does not stop at birth; important developmental changes occur after birth-- development of teeth and female breasts, for example."
      "Human Development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."
      "A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo)."